The name will not be changing. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on naming it after Sheldon, it just is not possible.
Some of the most asked questions should be answered with the below pictures. Hub will be 120mm OLD. Two shifters, top mount thumb and bar end. Cog interface is a standard Shimano spline.
Please also take some time to answer a few polls on the right hand side of the blog concerning the need to add a 130mm OLD or the possibility of a high flange hubshell.
Thank you everyone for your interest, this hub would not be moving forward if it was not for all of you!
Current hub specs (Not final).
Bar Mounted Thumb Shifter (Not final).
Bar End Shifter (Not final).
71 comments:
I am really looking forward to riding this next season although it would be great for cold weather if it is ready in time.
I'm really looking forward to this product as well. It looks like the shifter proper fits on a thumb and barend mount. I hope this would also make it compatible on a downtube shifter boss. Including the whole set: both mounts with one shifter as a kit would be great.
Shifters look good.
I wish you'd reconsider on the name though. I don't care if it's named after Sheldon, I just don't want cheap double entendre on my bike.
Looks great. I agree that a downtube adapter for one of the shifters is desirable.
I like the idea of having the splines for mounting sprockets being Shimano freehub sprocket compatible. Are you going to include spacers so Shimano sprockets can be used, or will they be necessary?
With a unit like this, aimed at strong riders, how about specifying a minimum acceptable input gear ratio for the hub to limit torque input. Rohloff, SRAM and NuVinci all have such specifications to protect their hubs from excessive torque loads and Sturmey Archer used to per older literature on your Heritage site. It might save you some warranty repairs or replacements.
The thumb shifter is perfect. Can't wait to buy one..or two.
I like the shifters a lot.
narrow band model and you've got more sales.
S3X? Change the name to anything other then S3X please.
You'll be able to tell the hepcats from the clueless - the hepcats will paint a black line down the start of the "3" before they build the wheel and will have "SBX" hubs!
Could it be any better? Where do I pre-order?
I've been on the list too long, I need a fix. Just sign me up for two hubs, one each shifters
Very nice. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these.
I want one I can take offroad.
Some of the folks who hefted the prototype said it was a chunk, but I see the listed weight is actually less than an SRF3.
I totally need this for my commuter.
Is the indexing/cable pull for the shifter the same as for the AW hub or specific to the S3X?
Having a thumb-shifter or bar-endshifter that works with other hubs would be great!
SB3 is better the S3X (SEX).
But your marketing folks may disagree.
Pretty exciting to see this coming together. I think it would be great to have a 130 option for converting all the old road bikes out there. Much more useful than 120 if you ask me.
Awesome! All looks great. The only thing I don't like is the chainline. Is there any way it could be made 42mm? That way I would not need to swap bottom bracket every time I switch from geared to single speed fixed.
It would be awesome if it was able to do some Pisgah Mtn Biking and take a thrashing.
130 would be ok but 135 would be better.
It doesnt really matter though cause ill just build a frame for that spacing.
Thumb Shifter would rock!!!
Hurry up and get em to market..
It would also be nice to expand the cog range. To me it would make sense to set the direct drive as the average cruising gear (70"-74")and leave the two lower ones for when I am lazy or feeling like remaining seated. For this it would make sense to have a 17t or 18t cog which would allow to just leave the chainring the same when switching wheels.
Making the cog in 1/8th width would also be great.
I hate the name S3X - this is a terrible choice. Please make the logo removeable rather than engraved. If people ask what hub I am sporting, it is unfortunate for you that I won't be able to tell them the model designation, because that is a conversation I would not want to have. But this flaw would not stop me from buying the hub if it performs well.
I hope the thumb shifter mount will be available to fit both road bars and mountain bike bars (I suppose there could be one clamp sized for the former with a shim for the latter).
very excited about this, but I have to add that I want a downtube option VERY BADLY. And, yes, 1/8 cog makes a ton of sense considering many buyers will be looking to throw it into an already 1/8 drivetrain.
I won't be changing the name. Much ado about nothing, I think.
I think if anyone wants to make an epitaph for Sheldon they should put their money where their mouth is and send a donation to his family.
A split clamp for the bar shifter would be sweet, but certainly not a deal breaker. It looks like you are already beyond the point of no return for that piece anyway.
How about one with 132.5 OLD? This way I can use it on my On-one il-pompino with 135 rear spacing. I would like a downtube shifter
Sorry if this has been previously discussed, but will one be able to build up a dishless wheel with this hub?
The name is cool. I like it.
When we will be able to get one and what will the cost be?
Is it durable enough for Mtn. Biking?
Weight?
OK this cog thing is really starting to worry me. If you guys are going to use a proprietary cog system on this hub you really have to do more than just 12 and 13. Forget chainrings, you are even going to be limiting people's crank choices on bikes with this hub! And why is it not using a cog/lockring system like every other fixed hub??? SSA, please email me answers/justifications/reassurances!
dahlberg.pete@gmail.com
135mm spacing please. Will it handle off road torque? I wonder if it would work with a schlumpf high-speed drive crank. Hmmm... 6 speed fixed mountainbike.
Re Cog interface: I would like to know if the Shimano cogs are the same design as Shimano BMX sprockets used for converting a Freehub to singlespeed.
I would also like to know why a conventional 3-spline cog as used in other internal gear hubs wasn't used here.
Or for that matter, why was the conventional fixed gear interface not used for this hub, as it would have allowed the hub to be used with either a fixed wheel or a free wheel, much like the original TF allowed for use as either a freewheel or a fixedwheel.
This looks great.
Cogs are not an issue for me, given the standard interface. I prefer this to the screw-on plus lock-ring (track hub) idea, since it will allow me to do like Sheldon did and make a left-hand drive oddity.
Now, when can I buy one?
From the drawing it looks like you are moving away from the 3 spine sprocket you find on all your other hubs. Why? The spines look like a standard Shimano hyperglide but I can't see the advantage of that. Why not make it a standard track sprocket screw and with left hand locking ring thread. I'm sure those of us with lots of these types of sprockets already will be happy.
It's nice having these standard sprockets so widely available in different sizes. Are these going to be available in sizes other than 13 and 12T?
Also will they be 1/8th or 3/32 chain? Or both?
Also I can't see any method with this type of sprocket for chain line adjustment. Another advantage of the old track sprocket screw fitting.
I think it might help a lot of us if some of your design decisions were explained. At the moment it looks a bit slap dash.
Regards
Further,
Your lock washer may preclude riders with sort or vertical drop-outs if the locking spine is to short. I had envisaged a locking arm that would bolt to the chain stay.
Don't be cheap, give us track nuts!
Some people might like more options than just 36h rims.
Where the gear selector/indicator protrudes from the glide nut will be vulnerable to damage by all those hardy off road and reckless commuters as they bounce there rear axle of trees and bollards.
Some torque data would be nice for users and manufacturers a like.
On the up side... Impressed that you have managed to keep the weight so low.
I am passing details as they become available to my engineer friends and bike fanatics. Can SA give us some assurances that our comments are being considered or at least read by the design team? This is free consultancy you’re getting here!
It is a pity that the ratios are fixed (excuse the pun) at direct, -25% and -37.5%. This results in a very wide range; would it be possible to offer close-ratio options (perhaps giving gears of 75", 65" and 50")? I also agree with yogakills comments (especially regarding the use of hyperglide sprockets); I would much rather see 'standard' threaded track sprockets.
binarybern is talking sense here. Options for tighter ratios would be nice. -25 and -37% are big jumps; great for fixed touring in hilly areas with panniers but... For hardened road commuters such as myself then a gear range of 55,65,75 would be pretty much optimal.
If the design of the internals is similar to that of the AC and ASC of yesteryear then it wouldn't be hard to offer a range of different planet and sun gears that could be swapped by the user to customise the gear ratios.
Again I think it boils down to two design features to make your product as popular as possible.
OPTIONS
and
More OPTIONS
I would probably buy several if I knew that I could customise them to suit different riding styles and bikes.
I depends whether you want to occupy a small part of the market and let SRAM and others fill the rest or get in early and dominate the Multi-fixed gear market; which I am sure by now you realise id pretty massive.
Well,
For Mtb i like the wide ratios as it will give me greater coverage of terrain.
Im used to either torquing it or over spinning it so i along with other mtb fixie fools would like a wide spread.
The cog interface is not a problem as long as there are choices say from a 13-20t.
Will the hub handle super high torque loads?
I have been known to break the spiders on crank arms so how will this hub handle my beastly power?
Will I need cable stops in order to route the shifter cable?
My vote definitely goes to the 130 spacing. Seeing as this is a hub I'd like to ride in the winter months, on rougher roads, and generally in sketchier conditions is there any chance of a drum or disk brake version down the line? It'd be nice, less cleaning of rims is always a plus!
Good work on the shifters, I second the comment regarding a kit that includes all possible mounting brackets.
personally, I love goofy double entendre on bikes and parts. Keep the anodize tasteful though please.
130 spacing please please please. not crazy about the sprocket design.. why not make it so a standard track cog would work?
bar end shifter is a great thing... this will be perfect for a fixed light tourer or rando bike... might have to save up my pennies for it!
but 130 please... 36h hole is ok - but an option for 32 would be great.
i know you need to limit options for sure... but... hopefully they will take off and you can offer another version with slightly tighter ratios and 32 hole.
28H would be great if possible?
Decent track style nuts would also be a nice touch.
Still would prefer closer ratios.
Any more information on timing and pricing?
Please change the model name to "SB3"
Is the use of a HG sprocket due to the expected higher resisting/skidding forces, and to reduce slop as compared to a 3 spline sprocket? What is the locking mechanism, and is there provision for the use of spacer(s) to adjust chainline?
The shifter looks like it would fit a downtube boss, which is nice, giving lots of options.
Is it possible to supply it with 130/135mm spacing, but have symmetrical spacers between the cones/locknuts so that it can then be spaced down to 130/126/120mm?
Would love to see some rider reviews, definitely keen to pick one up.
Any chance of similar thumbshifters for those of us using Sturmey 8 speeds with drop bars? Or is that just me?
Please come out with a 135mm/32h for mtn biking!!!!!
I can't wait for this hub to come out. The best of all worlds.
Just let us know when we can get hold of it and a bar end shifter.
I think that a 130 OLD model would sell well, but Why would anyone get hung up on 32h for MTB??? Get a grip. This thing weighs close to a kilo and is FIXED GEAR. If you think that 4 spokes is going to make the difference when racing, buy another hub and maybe skip (A BITE of) lunch to lose that 12g of excess weight. I'd rather have a stronger wheel (and that bite of lunch).
Having said that, most folk should avoid 39/13 (one skid patch) like the plague. A 48/17 would give a DD of about 80" and a luverley 17 patches to play with.
Closer ratios?...
This is a niche product, and I'm happy it's coming out at all. The fact that (a relatively small) proportion of fixed MTBers, roadies, time trialists and commuters will be blooming ecstatic is testament to SA's willingness to meet that niche market part way. hats off. (but hurry up!)
S3X is a terrible, terrible name. It WILL get wirebrushed/sanded/otherwise scrubbed off / epoxied over should you keep the name. (hopefully you'll come up with something less juvenile-double-entendre-ish)
The barcons look sweet. I'm really excited to build up a 3-speed fixed folder for when I'm traveling. The thumbshifter also looks great; is it possible to mount them on downtube shifter bosses? I hope so; on a fullsize bike, I'd probably prefer to mount the shifter on the DT to avoid cable clutter etc.
With regard to using Shimano splined cogs,
....with regard to the Shimano cogs, just make sure that the splines on the hub are plenty hard enough; some freehub models have had problems with the cog splines digging in and damaging the splines on the freehub.
All in all, though, I'm mega-excited about this unit, and will be ordering one as soon as it comes available.
I appreciate all the comments regarding the name but it will not be changing.
As for the above comment about the same type of shifters for the 8 speed. We are working on it!
LOVE LOVE LOVE the thumb shifters.
will the shifters work for srf3?
Looking forward to this. I like the cog choice, it will be more solid than the old Sturmey style. Keep the wide ratio please. And the 120mm spacing. Need a trigger shifter!
Is there any chance you can share exactly how long the cable pull is for this hub?
Thanks.
What are the chances of seeing Sunrace making brifters for road drop bars for this and other IG hubs?
Bar end shifters are definitely worlds better for my uses than the flat bar thumb shifters, but I still don't want to ditch the ease and simplicity of an integrated brake/shifter.
I think it would open up the road cycling market. At least more so than it is now, maybe with the rando crowd.
The biggest problem with this hub, and the one which you *will* hear the most complaints about, is the large gear range. A bit of quick math shows that the shifts are about equivalent to the shifts made by a standard rode triple (50/38/31). Indeed, I have the sneaking suspicion that this was the basis for the design decision.
Have your engineers ever *ridden* a fixed gear? A change of a couple teeth makes an enormous difference when you consider the flywheel effect. I live and commute in Seattle, and haven't been riding a fixed gear recently because of the hills. But I know that the original ASC fixed hub would be more than ample for my (very hilly) commute. Please use a more sensible gear range!
The shifters are brilliant.
If you could add a sleeve in the bar-top shifter lever mount, it would work on road bars as well.
I'd love to see a downtube version as well.
I'd love to see a reissue of the ancient all metal thumb shifters that strumey made back in the 1950's, with all their fonts and graphics as well.
And, will these two shifters work with the all the other existing SA 3 speeds?
How about a close-ratio gear hub reissue as well?
Thank you!
This is all very good news.
The shifters are perfect!!!!!
Will the shifters work on existing SA 3 speed hubs?
Would you please consider making a nice old retro looking downtube shifter version as well?
Would you consider adding a sleeve/ring in the bartop version's bar clamp mount that will make it fit road bars as well as mtn bars?
Would you consider making a vintage "heritage version" of your bar mount shifters circa 1950's?
How about a close-ratio gearing version of the hub?
Hi. . .any ideas of when we ll be able to get theses?
I d like one on my winter bike.
well...we heard January and it`s January..
So Mr. Sturmey Archer please cough up some info...
Will it be a Qbp product,Hawleys,Direct..
How will my bike shop get one?
INFO PLEASE
I echo the previous 2 posts, would very much like to get hold of this hub. When, where and how much?
This hub is going to be great! I'm planning to put in on my Raleigh Twenty! Sheldon would be so proud.
The S3X shifter is specific to the hub. Although we are looking into making this same type of shifter available for the rest of our hub lineup.
Because of the changes made to the driver delivery has been pushed back a bit. We are shooting for mid to late March.
You should be able to find them through United Bicycle Supply, QBP, THe Merry Sales Company, and J & B.
Just stumbled onto this product. I am giddy with joy that this will be available soon. I look forward to extending my terrain range with gearing on my recumbent fixie. Thanks S-A!!
PLEEEEAS, polish the leavers or at least paint them in silver. Best would be if you could dig up the blueprints of the 'ol SunTour ratchet barend leavers. Mine still look and working great after 30 years of use and abuse. Classic, timeless and iconic. That's how you build a good rep!
Oh, and make the thumb leaver mount multi adaptable with shims so that it fits different handlebar sizes, thanks!
Looking forward to getting my hands on this new hub. But a 130 OLD option would be wonderful, or at least make available a long axle so it can be spaced out. Bar end shifters are a plus.
+1 for downtube compatible shifter and narrower range option. Regardless, I know what I am asking for for my birthday this May.
Definite thumbs-up for the bar-end shifter option.
However, big, BIG thumbs-down if you only offer it in 120mm OLN - 130mm good, 135mm better (from my point of view, anyway, since my Dave Yates fixed is 135) - failing that, give us a long-axle option like the old AW3 hub gears.
Here's hoping that the UK doesn't get thoroughly shafted on price ...
Hi Sunrace Sturmey Archer. I can't spot the polls you are refering to in your initial message. I'd like to place a vote for a 28hole version for folders. Cheers!
Sheldon Brown is the reason why SA has all of this attention to this product. To not name it after him (in any capacity) is disappointing, and is almost like a kick in the face.
The wealth of (free!) knowledge and nods to your products on his website has drawn scads of bike enthusiasts to anticipate this hub's arrival. Too bad he never got to see it.
C'mon, give credit where credit is due. I saw an earlier response from SA that said naming it after Sheldon was "not possible." How can that be? That would be like saying, "Sorry Mom, I can't name my own son after Grandpa. His name will have to be XLQ-59."
Maybe the name of the hub could be something abstractly-Sheldon...perhaps one of his monikers from his web articles, like "Capt. Bike?"
Also, you can probably bet that if you make this hub affordable, you'll sell millions of them all over the world. Please don't gouge us.
Keep the name, or better yet, just call it SEX. You'd sell twice as many.
It would be great if the bar end shifters for the freewheel hubs could be used as down/top tube shifters or mounted on a custom made stem. If they were as versatile as a derailleur's bar end shifter I'd start using gear hubs again. It might become a common feature on custom made city bicycles as the next hand made bicycle show.
Just in case it wasn't clear, it's practically September '09 and we're still waiting for a release date. Throw us a bone, something we can work with and plan that awesome looking conversion project.
Surprises are good, but scheduled surprises are better. Please?
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